Posts by Disillusioned JW

99

If not the WT/JW relgion where else are 'we' to go? Why not atheistic/scientific philosophical naturalism?

by Disillusioned JW in

sometimes jws wonder if the wt/jw is not the truth, 'then where else are we to go?

' i say 'why not atheistic/scientific philosophical naturalism and why not a secular philosophy which teaches a way of life?

' what do you folks say?.

Disillusioned JW

Have any of you ever wondered if some people might have some paranormal ability, such as telepathy? I sometimes wonder about that (but from a non-supernaturalistic perspective). I wonder if some very young children have such powers but later loose them if their parents tell them they are merely imagining things, or if they tell them to stop what they are doing - saying the demons are interacting with them. Science has shown that people loose certain brain abilities at a young age if they don't use those abilities/functions at young age. For example people born blind won't be able to consciously see as an adult (though they might experience what is called "blind sight"), after the problem which caused the blindness is corrected after a certain age. That is because the brain broke the initial neural connections that had been made for processing imagines from the eyes, if the brain's optical center hadn't received input. Likewise, experiments with new born cats raised in environments with no vertical objects/lines later don't see them which such objects are placed into their environment. For dc see the following:

https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20150925-blindsight-the-strangest-form-of-consciousness

Cats and Vision: is vision acquired or innate?

I am reminded of the fictional TV episode of "Twilight Zone" called "Mute". It left a strong impact on my imagination. If you haven't seen it I encourage you to do so, then go the web page at https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/weird-news/telepathic-five-year-old-studied-6781860 and read its article and watch its video.

The WT in a video at https://www.jw.org/en/library/books/good-news-from-god/draw-close-to-god/video-does-god-listen-hear-prayer/ implies (in the images shown in the video in conjunction with the spoken words of the video) that Jehovah can hear silent prayers because, according to the WT, he can see our neural circuitry and because he designed and made our brains. I don't believe Jehovah exists, but hypothetically if he exists then the argument given has some logic to it. It is like how a human designer of a computer circuit and of computer software can monitor the activity within the computer and determine what instructions it is processing at a given moment.

99

If not the WT/JW relgion where else are 'we' to go? Why not atheistic/scientific philosophical naturalism?

by Disillusioned JW in

sometimes jws wonder if the wt/jw is not the truth, 'then where else are we to go?

' i say 'why not atheistic/scientific philosophical naturalism and why not a secular philosophy which teaches a way of life?

' what do you folks say?.

Disillusioned JW

carla, the WT/JW religion teaches that if one studies the Bible by herself/himself she/he will not gain an accurate understanding of it. The WT/JW religion teaches that people need them to understand the words of Jesus recorded in the Bible and they teach that the other Christian denominations and sects are all false, as well as all other religions. Furthermore most of the people who become JWs are people who wanted to be in the one true religion (and specifically in the one true denomination/church of Christianity) and to be taught by it, and they concluded that all of the others are false. They also concluded that there must be a god who created and designed the universe and who has a purpose for humans. As a result, if those people later conclude that the WT/JW religion is false then they have no idea of which other Christian denomination/church is true, if any, and they feel they can't understand the Bible well on their own (even if they pray to Jehovah and/or Jesus for understanding). Some of them then wonder if all religions are false and if there is no god at all. Some of them also wonder how they should live their lives if no religion is true. Some of them also wonder what is the best way to be happy and they wonder how they can be happy if there is no loving caring creator god.

I am trying to help people to conclude that there is no god at all and that the supernatural does not exist at all, but that there is a way to (partially) know the universe and to (partially) understand it (through the study of science) and that there are beneficial secular philosophies that contain a number of true teachings. https://www.patheos.com/blogs/crossexamined/2021/05/the-atheist-worldview-is-life-without-god-bleak-2/ and https://bigthink.com/personal-growth/epicureanism-greek-philosophy-atheists-happiness are some good web pages to read in those regards.

10

144000 and the great multitude

by cmaymann in

hellow.

i am studying some material about jehovah’s witness – and i wonder why they think, that the 144.000 from rev 7 should be in heaven, and the great multitude should be on earth.

can anyone give me some argument for this opinion?.

Disillusioned JW

One WT book that states the reasons why the WT believes the 144,000 and great crowd are two different groups, with the latter having an earthly hope, is the book called "Then Is Finished The Mystery Of God". It is copyright 1969. It does not likely completely agree with the current WT teaching on the matter, but at least it will tell inquiring people what the WT taught on the matter from 1969 to around 1980. It encourages readers to read some specific WT books and articles from before the year 1935 and maybe that is part of the reason the book is not included in the WT Library CD-ROM, nor the WT's online library. A transcription of the book (apparently by a faithful JW) can be read online at http://www.strictlygenteel.co.uk/mystery/mysterytitles.html . I noticed there are some minor typographical errors in the transcription of the book, but that source is still very reliable. That source for the book includes the illustrations of the book.

During all of the years I was a JW I had very little to no interest in the book. It bored me immensely (and I think I had a very hard time understanding it when I was under the age of 10 and even as a teenager), but during the past 7 days I have been reading the book with interest. During the past seven days I have become increasingly fascinated by the book. Now I understand the WT's perspective and reasoning upon the chapters of Revelation that the book discusses, and as a result now I can see how many JWs could believe the WT's teachings on the subject. I am now impressed by how skillful the author of that book was stating his line of reasoning for the WT's doctrines pertain to the prophecy of the book of Revelation. However, despite that I disagree with a large number of the WT book's teachings. I am convinced that according to the book of Revelation, the great crowd during the 1,000 years are in heaven and serve in the temple building. That realization is one idea which caused me to stop believing that the JW religion is the one true Christian denomination of Christianity.

I once or twice owned a hard copy of the book and of the Babylon the Great book, but I later sold them because at the time I was unimpressed with them and I wanted to downsize my personal library of WT books. But, now I regret selling those two books. My interest in the books is not so such for what bits of truth they contain (and there are some truths in them, including some historical elements and including some correct interpretations of what various biblical passages are intended to mean), but for the insight they give me of the WT's reasoning in support of their doctrines which existed during the time from my preteen years of life through my years as a college student. Now I even find reading the "Then Is Finished The Mystery Of God" as entertaining, like reading a fiction novel.

The following is something which puzzles me. If Revelation teaches that the great crowd who comes out of the great tribulation will be in heaven, and even more so if it says they are the same group as the 144,000, then according to Revelation who will Christ and his co-rulers be ruling over? I don't think Revelation says they will be ruling over themselves (like in a pure democracy) for Revelation says they will rule over/upon the Earth. But, according to Revelation who will be on Earth (to be ruled over) during that time if the great crowd and the 144,000 are up in heaven? One chapter in Revelation says Satan will be in the abyss for 1,000 years so he can't mislead the nations any more, but an earlier chapter says that all the people who receive the mark of the beast will be slaughtered by the god's execution forces and it says that the beast will slaughter those who refuse to receive its mark. If someone knows (or thinks s/he knows) the answers to these questions, please provide those answers.

99

If not the WT/JW relgion where else are 'we' to go? Why not atheistic/scientific philosophical naturalism?

by Disillusioned JW in

sometimes jws wonder if the wt/jw is not the truth, 'then where else are we to go?

' i say 'why not atheistic/scientific philosophical naturalism and why not a secular philosophy which teaches a way of life?

' what do you folks say?.

Disillusioned JW

Here is a website to learn more about atheism: https://www.atheists.org/ . They publish many books which make a strong case for atheism/naturalism; see their store at https://www.atheists.org/shop/ . https://www.atheists.org/about/history/ mentions the history of the American Atheists organization.

70

Report Card : How’s President Biden Doing?

by minimus in

jw
friends

i give him an f for falling down on the job..

Disillusioned JW

"American Atheists’ Statement on Meeting with Biden Administration":

https://www.atheists.org/2021/05/american-atheists-meeting-with-biden-administration/?emci=ca39c4ed-01b5-eb11-a7ad-0050f271b5d8&emdi=05fc820f-09b5-eb11-a7ad-0050f271b5d8&ceid=4501312

22

Degree of Effectiveness of JW Letter Writing Form of Witnessing

by Disillusioned JW in

a newspaper article quotes a jw as saying "every (letter) i put in the mailbox, i feel, 'ah, this could reach somebody.

'" the article also quotes her as saying "we are accomplishing even more now than we were door-to-door because this way everybody in the house gets a chance to pick up that letter and respond to it.

it just feels good.

Disillusioned JW

I see a number of posts on jehovahs-witness.com that say the Covid-19 vaccine causes diabetes, such as the above post by WTWizard, but my research about the vaccine is that it does not cause diabetes. My research even says that people with diabetes should get the vaccine since people with diabetes are at a much higher risk of severe complications if they later get infected with Covid-19. I intend to get my first shot of the vaccine (one by Moderna) before the end of this month.

Regarding the spread of the virus by letter writing, the scientific evidence is that the virus doesn't survive long on paper. Regarding licking stamps, many USA stamps are now the self-sticking kind (they are pealed off a sheet of paper/plastic and then adhered to an envelope).

Phizzy, I am very surprised by your claim of "The Org evidently does not want new recruits, it wants to shrink to a core of loyal JW's ...". I find it very hard to believe that they have no desire for new recruits, however maybe obtaining new recruits is now a low priority for them. But, interestingly I see that the Mormon (both men and women) missionaries are out in public witnessing to people. I asked one for how long did the LDS suspend such preaching/witnessing activity due to Covid-19 and he said for only about two months in the year 2020.

22

Degree of Effectiveness of JW Letter Writing Form of Witnessing

by Disillusioned JW in

a newspaper article quotes a jw as saying "every (letter) i put in the mailbox, i feel, 'ah, this could reach somebody.

'" the article also quotes her as saying "we are accomplishing even more now than we were door-to-door because this way everybody in the house gets a chance to pick up that letter and respond to it.

it just feels good.

Disillusioned JW

A newspaper article quotes a JW as saying "Every (letter) I put in the mailbox, I feel, 'Ah, this could reach somebody.'" The article also quotes her as saying "We are accomplishing even more now than we were door-to-door because this way everybody in the house gets a chance to pick up that letter and respond to it. It just feels good." An online version of the article appears at https://pamplinmedia.com/pt/507924-406294-no-knocking-for-jehovahs-witnesses-in-beaverton-due-to-covid-19 and another link is at https://pamplinmedia.com/bvt/15-news/507924-406294-no-knocking-for-jehovahs-witnesses-in-beaverton-due-to-covid-19. I added the bold facing for emphasis in the above quote.

Do you folks think the letter writing form of witnessing reaches more people than the door-to-door form of witnessing? If it does, it might stimulate growth in the JW religion.

123

1969 "fact": You will never grow old in this present system of things

by Ding in

awake!

"if you are a young person, you also need to face the fact that you will never grow old in this present system of things.

because all the evidence in fulfillment of bible prophecy indicates that this corrupt system is due to end in a few years... therefore, as a young person, you will never fulfill any career that this system offers.

Disillusioned JW

I think the 1-1-89 Watchtower (that said in this Twentieth Century) mentioned the missionary work instead of the general preaching work, coming to an end by then.

123

1969 "fact": You will never grow old in this present system of things

by Ding in

awake!

"if you are a young person, you also need to face the fact that you will never grow old in this present system of things.

because all the evidence in fulfillment of bible prophecy indicates that this corrupt system is due to end in a few years... therefore, as a young person, you will never fulfill any career that this system offers.

Disillusioned JW

Magnum, I am sad to that you work so many hours. I don't know how a human body can take that much work; I know mine can't (or at least I very strongly don't think it can), especially if with the amount of commuting time you claim to have. If I were to work that many hours per week I think I would drop down dead within a few months or so.

27

List of Critical WTS Teachings

by Vanderhoven7 in

i sent a list of statements about current wts teachings to a friend who is being carefully recruited by a seasoned witness.. hi em..... just a quick summary of what all “good” jehovah's witnesses believe...even though some of these things witnesses are not always willing to be transparent about.

this is your crash course.

i have quotations for every item listed if you want or need them.. witnesses believes that:.

Disillusioned JW

Here is the thing, each of the items listed are things that were taught in WT/JW literature that was offered to the public in the 1970s and/or 1980s (and later years), so why would a JW be ashamed to admit those teachings? Back when I was a JW I would not have been ashamed to tell them, for I was offering Watchtowers to the people which contained study articles saying those things I was offering various books which taught such things. Not all of those things were in every issue of the WT, but some WT issues would teach some of the things and others would teach some of the other things; a collection of WT literature taught all of those things. For example, The Babylon The Great book and the Then is Finished the Mystery of God book were offered door to the public for a period of time, and studied in congregation Book Studies in JW homes, for a period of time, and those who studied the Bible with the JWs were invited to attend those meetings.